of course we need more than education, i do not see education as the holy grail of solving every problem in Indonesia, but i do see a morally based education as the foundation of to initiate a logical reasoned civil society that fully embraces democracy. having a public sphere without a morally educated civil society(which will produce a logical civil society) will, of course, cause wider problems.

fundamentalism(which then evolves to terrorism) needs to be addressed as a whole, it needs to be seen its core problems rather than bashing it out with force, stupid Bush. haha

and i still belive about God existence, But i can appreciate it. Haha

but again bek, the concept of primordial chaos in many myths actually pretty similar with the chaotic state before big bang occurred. If god is impossible to be defined as single personality (the great father, queen of heaven, you name it), god might be the collection of entire universe, the world itself is god, thus we part of god and… I’m pretty sure we cant discuss it here XD

@ lambrtz
Haha! yap, that’s a double edge. That is why Dawkin still not sure about that one slogan. Check out the main article and you’ll find it. I think enlightment is very much needed in a country like Indonesia who has so many differences. Salam kenal juga, thx for your comment too!

@ Ben
Our last line of defense from being an Islamic state is democracy itself, but democracy favors the majority will. And if this idea of fundamentalist movement keeps growing at today’s pace, it will soon threatening the seeds of democracy we planted since the political reform in 1998. If the majority favors Pancasila to be replace by Syaria law, then that’s the end of our discussion here, Ben.

Your sentence of ‘nationalism beaten by fundamentalism’ is ironically happening today. We need more than education Ben, we need a public sphere that can support these free-flow of thinking to provide more space for logical reasoning rather than doctrines. An that is rather hard to accomplished. I second your nationalism Ben.

@ Boy
Hey, that is surprisingly true!! Why did I not see this coming! hwaha! interesting point u have mentioned!

@ Colson
Couldnt agree more Colson. Once they become highly organized and started to act dogmatics, they are no different from their counterparts. That is why I think their ads in public is, on certain degrees, good for the public itself. It will spark more debates on the issue, and keep critical doubts from both sides live.

@ Calvin
It is interesting to find a perspective of a believer here, as you are now a part of an organized religion, Vin.. hwaha! Well, on your comment, I still believes that god is exist. It might be a good analogy to perceive god as a diamond with infinite point of view as you perceived, and nobody could perceive it exactly like anyone else, but when you said that truth is relative, I think god’s existence can’t be categorized as that ‘truth’. The truth about god can’t be perceieved as relative as it is the ‘prima causa’. Other truth might be subjectively debated, but this prime-omnipotent should not be categorized as such. But this might be a long debate to discuss this matter. So, would you mind make a post on the topic, Rev. Calvin Michel Sidjaja?

@ Wenny
maybe later means that we will have this luxury someday? good to have an optimistic view on this matter.

Kekerasan yang dibungkus dengan agama adalah kekerasan yang paling munafik dan sama sekali tidak dapat dibenarkan. Completely agree on you, wen!

I dreams on when will our society can have such open-minded tolerance, with fair observation and logical reasoning, instead of religious verses and superstitious foretell….will we have that kind of luxury…?

maybe later..when there is no FPI
ato orang bergaris keras

sebenernya saya kadang malu melihat sodara seiman yang ‘memaksa’ orang lain mengikuti apa yang mereka imani.
apalagi kalo buntutnya kemudian adalah kekerasan. kekerasan berbalut agama.

Try asking simple question like why human have form like this? Where is mind located in our brain? Why people experience encounter with ufo while others encounters angels (or something spiritual)?

In my opinion, G/god is a diamond with infinite point of view, nobody could perceive truth exactly like someone else. Truth is relative, and I hope I’m not alone in this.

I agree it is great they can air their opinion or even shout it from the rooftop ( or advertise it on a bus). Yet every now and then I get the impression that the likes of Richard Dawkins got stuck in the same trap as religious zealots: lack of critical doubt. A real pity (I say as an agnostic).

—> eh, the Vatican raises billions of Dollars every month as a result ,or to prove, God’s existence. Atheist can’t make money as good as the religious ones haha..

but..it’s rather hard for me to believe such a thing. yes, i understand that many will certainly object if Indonesia does(amit2) become an Islamic state such as the minority groups, the armed forces and nationalistic-pluralist groups. nevertheless we can not deny the facts that fundamentalism has planted itself deeply in many universities in Indonesia such as IPB. Even high schools have been somewhat effected with fundamentalism(remember the stories you use tell me abut your high school years bek?).

it is rather sad to see such a thing. it is more saddening to see that fundamentalists care more about their brothers and sisters who are thousands of miles away then their “real” brothers and sisters in their very own country. nationalism seems to beaten by fundamentalism and this can clearly be seen almost everywhere and anywhere.

i was quite upset when i saw KAMMI(Kesatuan Aksi Mahasiswa Muslim Indonesia) protest to the local government concerning the Israel-Palestine conflict while reciting verses from the Holy Quran. But what upset me even more was the vests they were wearing, on the back of the vest was embroidered, “SAVE OUR PALESTINE!”

OUR PALESTINE? what about OUR INDONESIA? saddening isn’t it? the government and us really needs to address this problem quickly, perhaps Indonesia won’t be a Islamic state in the near future. However there is always a possibility of becoming one if this nonsense is allowed to cultivate and spread.

and please do remember that fundamentalism spreads easily in 3rd world countries such as ours. the government should tackle this problem by reforming its education system, it should emphasize on morality not religion. To tell you the truth, I do not really believe that Indonesians are ready for these imported religions.

fundamentalism is the result of a morally undereducated individual embracing religion as the way to satisfy his or her spiritual needs because of the lack of his or hers physical needs.
to minimize fundamentalism is not as complex as many have said. we just need an effective education system that emphasizes itself on moral values rather than religion. because when we blindly adopt a religion, a political system, a dogma, we become automatons. we cease to grow. let us not become of that. let us grow, let us be strong, let us be just and let us become the Indonesia our forefathers wanted us to be.

“Kami menggoyangkan langit, menggempakan darat, dan menggelorakan samudera agar tidak jadi bangsa yang hidup hanya dari 2 ½ sen sehari. Bangsa yang kerja keras, bukan bangsa tempe, bukan bangsa kuli. Bangsa yang rela menderita demi pembelian cita-cita”

Ir. Soekarno.